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View Full Version : Multiple lights on, off, dimming, etc


ghostt
Oct 13, 2009, 04:01 PM
Greetings:

Many, many moons ago before I discovered HCA, I was using a small linux machine with two CM11A's (one to receive, and one to send, so as to avoid collisions), and I used the popular "heyu" linux program. There is one piece of functionality I was able to do with 'heyu' that I have never been able to figure out how to replicate with HCA.

When I would execute a scene script with the heyu setup, I could essentially tell Heyu "set A1, B2, F5, M4, and O4 to 50% brightness", and it would work. Now what Heyu did differently is, that somehow, it would dim ALL the lights simultaneously, rather than one at a time. I'm assuming that what heyu did was first address all devices in the list, then send a single "dim 50%" command, and all addressed devices picked it up and acted on it.

However with HCA, I find that no matter how I go about it, each light dims sequentially, rather than simultaneously. I've tried dimming groups of lights, I've tried using the 'Send X10' visual programmer element, nothing seems to get the desired result.

Is there a way that I'm overlooking to do this in HCA, or is this functionality not there? The reason I find it kind of a problem is that all of my scene scripts set a 'baseline' first, and turn all lights off, then set all lights for the scene to their desired setting. If I'm in Room A, that's fine, because Room A seems to be the first room to take effect. But if I'm in room D, on the other side of the house, I may have to wait as long as 5-6 seconds in the dark before I get light in the room. This is problematic in that it can be somewhat dangerous, but it also means I have to just stop and wait, kind of annoying. I've kind of made a work-around by setting keypads in various rooms to different housecodes so that each room has a unique ID for triggering such scenes, and thus the program can do a check on what trigger started it, and turn on the local light first, however it seems like an inelegant way to go about it, and I'm running out of housecodes. :)

To be clear, I'm not trying to set a group of lights to varying brightness or anything, just trying to set 10 or so switches which are all the same make/model switches to a specific dim level (50% in most cases). I've replicated my ability to do this with 'heyu' recently, so its definitely possible with the x10 protocol, but I'm just not sure how to make it happen with HCA. Anyone have any clues?

Thanks!

KHarms
Oct 14, 2009, 11:15 AM
In X10 there two types of commands that go on the powerline. An address like "B1" and a command like ON. The commands – ON, Off, Dim, Bright, etc - also carry with them a house code. So you can't send a ON command without saying "ON house code B". So if you wanted to send a command to control C8 to ON you would send:

Address C8
ON C

In the X10 world it is also possible to send a sequence of commands like this:

Address B1
Address B2
Address B3
On House code B

If you do that then B1, B2, and B3 will come on at the same time. But if you send this sequence:

Address B1
Address C1
Address D1
On D

Then only D1 will come on at the same time. You can't, with just simple X10 commands, to get different devices on different house codes to act on a command at the same time.

So I don’t know what the other software did. It might use some magic that I am just not familiar with. I would like to have a log of what happens on the powerline when the other software does this trick.

If the devices can contain scenes – for example PCS SceneMaster switches or SmartHome SwitchLinc switches - then you can program them to all respond to one scene command. This can work across house codes. HCA can program both of those types of switches with scenes and then in a program you can use the Scene element to invoke that scene. That way they will all respond simultaneously.

ghostt
Oct 14, 2009, 11:47 AM
That is generally how I understood how the X10 protocol works, and the more I think about it I'm not entirely sure that the devices spanned multiple housecodes, it is possible they were all on the same one. I will fire up the old linux box tonight and verify, and try and capture the powerline log with a CM11A.

Assuming that all devices are on the same housecode, and you're dimming a grouping of lights (ie, a group object containing a number of dimmable switches), would HCA follow the steps above (ie, Address B1, Address B2, Address B3, Dim 50% B), or does it do each light sequentially? My current layout has each room separated by housecodes, however if I can get the behavior I'm looking for by simply re-doing the layout so all lights are on the same house code, it would be well worth the re-design. Or would the only way to attain this be to use the Send X10 visual programmer element? If so, is there a way to reference devices by name in that element, or must you define actual housecode/unit codes?

Thanks for the input!

KHarms
Oct 20, 2009, 08:59 PM
One last question on this. Are your deveices older style dimming devices like the LM465 or newer ones that use PresetDim like the X10 SwitchLinc or the PCS SceneMaster?

ghostt
Oct 21, 2009, 01:38 AM
One last question on this. Are your deveices older style dimming devices like the LM465 or newer ones that use PresetDim like the X10 SwitchLinc or the PCS SceneMaster?

They are all indeed Switchlinc's from Smarthome (older style, 2384 mostly).

mjl
Oct 24, 2009, 01:26 PM
I apologize if this is a stupid question, but in the HCA Advanced properites, is the "
Disable Group Sends" box checked? I think you need to uncheck that box in order to allow HCA to do group sends in X10 (but all of the devices still need to be in the same house code). I think if you enable group sends and put all of the devices in the same house code and also in a Group in HCA, and then send a command to the group, HCA *should* do a group send. I haven't tested this, since I disable group sends in my design - when you run multiple house codes and many devices inluding X-10 motion sensors, it is possible for commands to get interleaved and the wrong devices will get the command.

KHarms
Oct 24, 2009, 06:25 PM
This makes it even harder as they dim using a PresetDim command. The way that command works you can't pre-address the devices and get one command to set them to a given level. The preset dim command is not like the other x10 commands.

Again, it is a mystery how the other software could do this - at least to me - impossible thing.

mjl
Oct 25, 2009, 05:36 PM
If I recall (it's been a while since I used X10), there is some way to make devices go on to their default on level rather than full on - Evidently, this is not standard between manufacturers? (http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Using_Pre-Set_Dim) -

Just for kicks - try sending a "Dim" command to a dimmable X-10 device when it is turned off and see if it goes to the Default on-level.



This makes it even harder as they dim using a PresetDim command. The way that command works you can't pre-address the devices and get one command to set them to a given level. The preset dim command is not like the other x10 commands.

Again, it is a mystery how the other software could do this - at least to me - impossible thing.

ArMo
Feb 28, 2010, 06:00 AM
For some reason I don't see this happening in HCA. I have 3 identical devices in the same housecode and deactivated the Disable Group and when I look into the log the sequence is still
On B10
On B11
On B12

in stead of

B10
B11
B12
On B

Any suggestions why HCA is not treating groups with the expected group command as I would like to switch/dim the devices (members) of a group simultaneously