Questions on Features & Functionality

[Livin]

I've never used HCA but v9 looks nice so I may try it out. I looked for info on the web interface but found very little so I have a few questions...

1) Can the user write custom pages and host them from HCA's web server?

2) What does HCA's web server support...
a) any version of MS .NET?
b) will a near future relase support HTML5? If yes, any ETA?

3) Any plans to make a more polished web interface? The current one is functional, but far from visually appealing IMO.

4) Does the web interface have separate guest and admin modes (or ability to create several users w/ a default user) and the ability to easily (via device settings) hide some devices and events from the web UI based on the mode?
- I'd like to have different devices/events show for guests then for admin
- I'd like to be able to change the setup using the web interface... comes in handy sometimes.


thx

[rtwilson]

hey livin,

lets see if i can address some of these.

1) Can the user write custom pages and host them from HCA's web server?
yes, you can. you can make an html display in HCA and assign it your page.
2) What does HCA's web server support...
if what you mean are browsers. we have tested with ie,firefox,safari, opera, chrome and a few others. the very latest opera 10 has a scrolling issue, but other than that...
a) any version of MS .NET? depends, you can add client side functionality like controls and plug-ins to your custom pages. the server itself DOES NOT remote any MS.NET functionality from the server at this time and has no need to for this implementation.
b) will a near future relase support HTML5? If yes, any ETA?
future releases will always maintain current html levels from 3.2 and above. however, we wont be looking at these kind of things till maybe next summer. the interface is so simple and straight forward that HTML5 wont offer us much improvement.
3) Any plans to make a more polished web interface? The current one is functional, but far from visually appealing IMO.
actually, IMHO, we have already polished it quite a bit ;). there are several display modes, depending on what you are using for a device. maybe one of the others will be more to your liking.besides that we welcome all comments for improvements we can make.

there is also the HCAWEB.css file in the /Files directory that can be modified to change some of the appearance.

We would like to be everything perfect for everybody, but given all the combinations and possibilities, we chose to provide a bullet proof web interface for HCA instead of an IIS or Apache replacement. so keeping it simple has been a mantra for development. we just want to provide a solid way for you to access your home from anywhere, securely.

4) Does the web interface have separate guest and admin modes (or ability to create several users w/ a default user) and the ability to easily (via device settings) hide some devices and events from the web UI based on the mode?
- I'd like to have different devices/events show for guests then for admin
- I'd like to be able to change the setup using the web interface... comes in handy sometimes.

very interesting suggestions....

currently we have no concept of seperate users for either HCA or the web interface. any user that can supply the proper password can get access. besides functionality our primary focus has been security. Because of this, we made design decisions to not allow any "configuration" or setup of HCA itself through the web interface. you can only control the devices that have been configured.

[Livin]

RT,
thank you for the info.

The web interface screenshots posted look like they may be functional, but not user friendly... especially for guests. The goal of a web interface should be not only for the owner's use, but these days, for their family and guests too.

I've been using an old version of Homeseer for many, many years so I want to ensure any product I replace it with gives me a lot more flexibility & functionality out of the box. The idea is to pay money for more functionality that is easier to customize - so I'm not writing custom code to make it pretty, or user friendly. The last thing I want to do is install any supplemental apps/software, or write new code, just to get back to the functionality I have with my 8 yr old software.

The code I have running on homeseer works well and is formatted for iPhone (mobile devices) but runs on any browser, very well.

here's a few screen shots (most gifs are animated) of what I have, formatted for a mobile device...

iPhone look... (latest UI, still polishing up a bit)
http://members.cox.net/ltek/images/iphone2.jpg

have had this for years. used on many different interfaces, each room is a separate iframe, so reformatting the screen layout is a snap... I have several layouts depending on the device screen size...

http://members.cox.net/ltek/images/iphone.jpg

[ewelin]

Well I think the big thing to remember here, is that HCA has only had a built in web interface for 2 versions now. HCA is a windows app and really is designed to be a set and forget system. I have HCA running on my WHS box and very rarely interact with it and I honestly never have the web interface running. I have several programs setup that run automatically every day/few hours and others that are trigged by keypads throughout the house. From the sounds of it, your automation setup is very much web based. What you see with screen captures for the HCA web interface is pretty much what you get, you can make minor changes to the color scheme and some changes to button formats via CSS code but that's about it.

If this was a perfect world, what would you like to be able to change in the Web Interface, how would you want it customized?

[Livin]

Actually my setup is not mostly web based... I have about 30 events that run in the background and never have human interaction. But windows interfaces, as primanry controls are so year 2000. :p

I control many things from my web ui directly... and often.

Just a few examples...

Friends are coming over and I want to set the "Conversational Lighting" scene.
- either I can change 5 different light switches manually, or click on button on my iPod. pretty easy choice ;)
- also, the backend code can be smart enough to know what time of day it is and set the lighting appropriately (differently) based on the lighting level for that time of day.
- no need to manually adjust 5 different light switches.

My espresso machine is on a on/off timer event (via appliance module) but I'm done early and want to turn it off... should I walk over to my server, login and shut it off?
- total waste of time... I just click a button on my iPod... or any browser I happen to be near.

hopefully you can see how the front end UI is just as important as the backend code running automation.

The screens are the interfaces I've created and use daily... Home Automation is far more than a background process for everyone I know. It is about both doing things without intervention... and making the intervention 100x easier (and cooler) :D

A web interface needs to be a control panel... imagine a touch screen in every room running the web UI... what would you want to control from that room? ... for most people, the answer is "a lot".
Or you are out of the house... and you forgot to turn off a light, or want to check the status of the coffee machine, or, or, or - you get the picture.

[ewelin]

oh I definitely get the picture and I've always stated that I want to see HCA have a nice, user friendly, remote access interface.

Most of my home automation has been done in a way to be blind to people in the house, but I'm slowly exposing more and more as I expand. Most of what you described can be done with the current HCA interface, but it's not the slickest interface. I guess it depends on what you're looking for... looks or functionality. Not sure if you're into the HTPC world much, but a prime example of this is SageTV vs MS Media Center. Media Center has the looks, but SageTV has far more functionality once you are able to get past the initial look of it. And SageTV has a great community of users to help hone it and improve it and there are user created plugins which give SageTV a slick GUI. Now that HCA has a great forum hopefully we can have a community here that does the same.

[Livin]

I don't want looks OR functionality... I want both at the same time. :D

I have it today, though I built the "looks" part myself. And for the functionality, the stuff built-in to Homeseer's web UI, is more functional since you can have different users and have nearly full control of the app from anywhere in the world (it can be turned off or only allowed on the local intranet too). And the Homeseer version I'm using is over 5 yrs old - but this functionality has been in it for nearly 8 years.

I use XBMC for my HTPC. It meets both criteria of looking amazing AND being super functional... with the added bonus of being one of the easiest to use, and most flexible media centers available - and it is free.

HCA has a few cool things, like the visual programmer - and while useful it is not a game changer. The name of the game today is making the functional backend be accessible by anyone (ease of use) and look "pretty" at the same time. The only way to do this cross platform (multiple devices) is via a web UI.

Case in point...
Smarthome has a fairly basic but very functional (covers most user's needs) SmartLinc (http://www.smarthome.com/2412N/SmartLinc-INSTEON-Central-Controller/p.aspx) . It is a PLC, has a network interface, and runs a 100% web interface (HTML & javascript) for setup and control... and has a cross platform web UI - all for $129.
- now, it is not as powerful as HCA or most other PC based apps for the DIYer BUT is it does what most people need... and it is cheap, easy, and looks good.
- and the web server is user customizable.

In all I think HCA looks promising... I'd need a few things, including the web interface, to get a little more "feature rich" and it might compel me to spend the $160... but as it sits today, it does not benefit in more then one or two areas and actually takes me several steps back in the web interface.

I'd be happy to work with the developers on the areas I think could be expanded a bit to make the app "compelling" over the other HA apps available.

Areas like... State awareness, Web interface, security mode, motion awareness, etc.

[ewelin]

I agree that everyone wants everything... what I was trying to get at with SageTV comparision, I feel I have a great interface and feature set, thanks to a great community. I personally hate the built in interface of SageTV, but SageMC allowed me to customize the look and feel and set it up how I wanted. SageMC was created by some of it's users. There are plugins which give the fanart features of XBMC, I personally don't like, but to each their own. When I was searching for an HTPC software about a year ago, I loved the look of XBMC but it was quickly dropped from my list when I found out it didn't have built in TV support. My HTPC is user mostly for timeshifting TV, I have over 1,000 programs recorded.... I know TV support can be added with a 3rd party plugin, but I rather tinker with a GUI than core support.

In HCA you can define 3 passwords, I believe 2 of which effect remote access. You can have a Remote Access password. If that password is configured in HCA, then you need to enter it on the web interface in order to use it. There is also a Control Design password and if that's configured in HCA, then you need to enter that before being able to control any devices. It should be noted that if you are controlling the web interface from a local pc on the same network at the PC running HCA, then you don't need to enter passwords. It isn't quite the user systems, but it does give you the ability to have a guest look at your web interface and interact with it, without controlling any devices.

I do agree that the Web interface needs improvements, but you also mentioned state awareness. Can you go into more detail on this... as well as your other areas.... the developers do come into these forums and feedback is always welcomed. I don't have any motion sensors in my house, but I believe HCA has great support form them.

[rtwilson]

Hey Livin!

First off, thank you, so very, very, much for giving HCA a chance. The HCA development team fully realizes that HCA users invest a lot of time and money in their home automation soutions.

it can't go unnoticed, that a HomeSeer user of so many years, is interested in making HCA a part of their home automation solution. it is both, gratifying and humbling.

Second, we hope that all of our users have a voice in the development of future releases. these forums were provided so that all suggestions could be heard and considered. thank you, for taking the interest and time to add to this effort. we look forward to hearing more from you in the future....

hopefully, you will find that some items you have brought to light are more semantics than functionality, and that the large feature set of HCA is everything you need and more, to truly control your home.

again, thank you so much, for your interest in HCA